Replacing ceilings

[racheps]

Hi

I am resorting to having my ceilings replaced to (hopefully) cut down on impact noise from the flat above mine (which at the moment is unbearable). It's a Victorian conversion, but the ceilings aren't the originals. They were replaced a couple of years ago, it seems, with something that is very thin.
Can anyone recommend an effective solution and/or plasterer to do the job? I am thinking of stuffing the cavity with rockwool and double boarding the ceiling, but there may be a more effective method out there. I have had a couple of quotes already, one being almost double the other!!

Many thanks,

Rachel

[miss guy did]

Hi

I had soundproofing improvement work done about four years ago.

I live in the bottom half of a Georgian double fronted house with the staircase running through the middle of the property.

I ended up, after a frosty two year mexican stand off with my neighbours upstairs about poor sound insulation, having new ceilings suspended on resilience bars, double lined with acoustic plasterboard.

It hasn't stopped every sound but it has definitely stopped the squeaky floorboards and every footstep sounding like it's five inches from my ear. I still hear the occasional mad dash to get ready for work, and they still clatter down the stairs (they don't really but it's what happens with a staircase running down the middle of your flat). The intrusion level is now "not really there" to "comfortable, I can live with it".

Just replacing the ceilings will make very little difference. You need at least four inches clearance (six is ideal) above your window frames to go for the resilience bars option. Soundproofing from above isn't as effective.

It wasn't cheap but it was worth the spend. If you need more information post back on the thread. Will try to find a link to the company who did my work and the links to the "this is the science" pages I found whilst on a mission.

Good luck. I was teetering on the verge of perpetual incandescent rage until I reached an agreement with upstairs. Noise instrusion is extremely difficult to bear lightly, particularly when it's not inconsiderate behaviour but just other people living in their homes causing it.

miss guy did

[racheps]

Thank you! That's very helpful advice.

I've had lots of plasterers round, and only one has mentioned the resilience bars...It does sound like a better method than rockwool, and strangely, one quote I got for the rockwool/plasterboard method was more expensive than the quote for the resilience bar method!!

Unfortunately I put every penny I owned into my deposit for the flat, so paying to fix the ceilings is a bit of a problem. I might just be able to afford to fix one room every couple of months.
I had a valuation done on Saturday, to see if selling the flat again would be more cost effective, and it actually would.....but apart from the noise issue I really love my flat.

I would much appreciate it if you could dig out the contact details of the people who did your ceiling. I could do with getting a couple more quotes.

Did your upstairs neighbours contribute to the costs of the work? The owner of the flat above mine thinks it's all my responsibility because I own the ceiling (and according to him it's the ceiling that's defectcive), but according to our lease he owns the joists and floorboards, and therefore I think he should at least pay to have the loose ones nailed back down. The noise I hear is like a very loud cracking, and wakes me up at night if the upstairs tenants get out of bed. On top of that I hear all their conversations, bumps, bangs and thuds from them walking around (in slippers!), and from 7 to 8 am every morning it sounds as though they are dragging furniture around, and dropping heavy objects. This is only the bedroom....The kitchen is 10 times worse! Laundry day is like living through an earthquake! I've experienced several earthquakes, so I know what I'm talking about.

Here's an idea. Would you mind calling round to my flat and having a listen to see if the noise is anything like what you experienced (though I can almost 100% guarantee that mine is worse)....and then could I pop round and listen to the lack of noise at your place? It would give me an idea of what to expect. If this would be ok, email me at racheps@yahoo.com and we can arrange it.

Many thanks,
Rachel

[Bruce]

Hi Racheps,

I have the solution for you. I bought my flat about 2 years ago and have had a terrible problem with noise on all sides - floor and walls!! It is a horrible and upsetting experience to buy a flat and find out you can hear your neighbours constantly. I've spent a fortune on soundproofing my walls and floors.

The floor solution is a product called quietfloor from Custom Audio Designs.

http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/

It comes in panels and is a mixture of rubber and foam. It would need to be laid under your neighbours carpet and stops impact and airborne noise. It's very effective and very easy to fit. It's not cheap but would work out far cheaper than fitting a false ceiling.

Unfortunately you would have to negotiate with your neighbour to let you have access to his flat to do this. It would mean lifting the carpet in each room. If you are a leaseholder check your lease. One of the clauses should state you are entitled to "quiet enjoyment of your premises". Hence the freeholder or agent for the freeholder should help you push this through. The positive thing for your neighbour is that it's like having a luxury underlay!

Hope that helps. If you need any more info I'm happy to help.

P.S. Your Rockwool between the joists idea will only limit airborne noise very slightly but not impact noise from people walking above.

[racheps]

Thanks Bruce, but I actually started out by offering to pay for underlay (Acoustilay) for the neighbour's carpet, only for him to tell me the problem was my ceiling. I don't think he wants to lift the carpets as he has tenants in the property and it will inconvenience them. He also doesn't want a fat underlay affecting his doors etc.

We are joint freeholders, though I own the freehold to his flat and he owns the freehold to mine. So actually we are leasing off each other.

The lease does say I am entitled to "quiet enjoyment of the premises" (or something like that), but the other freeholder is insisting the problem is my ceiling. He did say that if I do replace my ceilings and can still hear his floorboards creaking then he will consider paying to have them fixed. I asked if he'd put that in writing (for my peace of mind, before I fork out THOUSANDS to fix the ceilings) and he point blank refused, accusing me of having insulted him! I've never even met the man, so how am I to know whether he'll keep his word or not?! I can barely afford to have one ceiling replaced at the moment, and can't afford to pay to fix his floorboards and give him a new underlay as well.

I will be consulting a solicitor about my rights with regards to both the other freeholder, and the couple who sold me the flat, who failed to mention they'd had the ceilings recently replaced but without any form of sound insulation. I am pretty sure it should have been mentioned in the Home Information Pack....

Thanks for your message.

Rachel

[Bruce]

Good idea to go and see a solicitor.

The good news is that you will be able to sort it one way or the other.

If you need another quote Steve Wylie at Wylie Wood did all of my work. He's a good guy and really helpful. Drop him a line at wyliewood@gmail.com or his number is: 07739973079.

[tom1976]

Hi

I have just moved to the area - well not quite as still waiting for the builders to finish.

Have you managed to resolve the noise problem?

I had the same issue at my old place and there are a number of thigs you can look at before getting the cheque book out...

1. look at the lease - it usually says somthing along the lines that floors should be covered with carpet and a good quality underlay.
2. if your lease says that you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the premises then your neighbour/landlord could in breach.

Some house insurance policies will cover you for domestic disputes, so you may want to see if they will cover the cost for legal advice.

Drop me a line if you want to have a chat in more detail

Good luck and i hope you manage to sort things out.....

Tom

[racheps]

Hi Tom

Not really sorted it out yet, but have had quotes of around £1000 per ceiling. I can't afford to fix them at the moment so am living in limbo. Can't decorate or unpack, or even buy furniture until I've sorted the ceilings, but I am due to have an operation in June and I need to make the place comfortable before then. I was thinking of literally just putting the place back on the market, but it's not really practical at the moment....as it'd mean postponing the op...Not a good idea. In fact I bought the flat so that I'd have somewhere ground floor, quiet and comfortable to recuperate.

My lease is a very oldfashioned one, and I don't think it specifically mentions carpets or underlay (they do have carpet, but the worst noise is from the floorboards, and I'd still hear that even if they had fat underlay), and yes I am entitled to "quiet enjoyment" but the guy who owns the upstairs flat (but rents it out) is convinced that my ceilings are the problem and not his floors. The noise is horrendous. I don't imagine that any ceiling could block out the cracking floorboards that I can hear. I am having to stay at work late most nights so that the neighbours have gone to sleep before I get home (usually 10 ish). Otherwise I just can't switch off or relax. The noise is just far too intrusive. And even if I wear earplugs to bed I am woken up at 6:30 by the cracking, sqeaking, bumping, thuds and conversations. So I am constantly lacking sleep and feeling ratty!

Anyway, sorry for the frustrated rant.

I am the freeholder of the upstairs flat and he's the freeholder of mine, which means that we should be able to enforce repairs etc, and so I am probably within my rights to ask him to repair his loose/broken/rotten floorboards...and I am getting legal advice about this. I am also seeking advice as to whether the vendors should have disclosed the problem and therefore whether I can claim compensation. I am putting together the paper work, including all email correspondence I have with them. I mentioned many times to them and the estate agent that I needed somewhere "QUIET".

I am interested to know if/how you solved the problem at your old place!

Email me at racheps@yahoo.com if you like.

Thanks,

Rachel